Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoenix Lander results

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rlb2

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<p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff6600">I guess just about everyone interested in astronomy is looking forward to those results.&nbsp;</font></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#ff6600">Posted by michaelmozina</font></DIV></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">There not done baking yet but I thought that this was a little interesting. Is it sublimation, dust settling, or plain old salt? Note, both images were taken at a slightly different angle.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Top image sol 19</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Bottom image sol 21</span></span> </p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<img style="width:251px;height:248px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/1/df53bc67-15d4-4d13-91b2-148c064546fa.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="336" height="292" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><br /><br />&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There not done baking yet but I thought that this was a little interesting. Is it sublimation, dust settling or plain old salt? Note, both images were taken at a slightly different angle.Top image sol 19Bottom image sol 21 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by rlb2</DIV><br /><br />Please tell me where these raw images are! I'm checking the NASA site, the U of Az site, and the JPL site, and I don't see them on the front pages yet.</p><p>To me, judging by the changes, (this is the Dodo-Goldilocks trench) it appears that frost is forming on a cold surface, unless they have done ore digging (which they might have done)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff6600">Please tell me where these raw images are! I'm checking the NASA site, the U of Az site, and the JPL site, and I don't see them on the front pages yet.To me, judging by the changes, (this is the Dodo-Goldilocks trench) it appears that frost is forming on a cold surface,</font> <font color="#0000ff">unless they have done ore digging (which they might have done) <br /></font>Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">That&rsquo;s another option. </span></p><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Look here for some of the raw images that I am processing plus it&rsquo;s a good site for NASA up to date color images and information from </span><span style="font-family:Verdana">Arizona</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"> and NASA.</span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana">NASA site</span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/index.html</font></span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana">Arizona</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"> site</span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;(look under GALLERY)</span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/</font></span> </p><p>New digs.</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/9/2664a8af-7934-4ebc-89c7-837c4283ac5c.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="326" height="248" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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rlb2

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<strong><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Check out ice-worms as a extremophile that&nbsp;may be able to&nbsp;survive in conditions like mars if it was just a little more extreme.</strong></font></span></strong> <p><strong><span><font face="Times New Roman">Here is some images of them on glaciers.</font></span></strong></p><strong><span><font face="Times New Roman"><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/5/8068780b-c656-4e68-a570-641e143d5469.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></font></span></strong><strong><span><font face="Times New Roman"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/3/81f9357c-9975-4218-a32f-b3fa27610a5b.Medium.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;<strong><span><font face="Times New Roman">Here is the link. One interesting point is that they melt at tempratures above 10 C </font></span></strong></p></font></span></strong><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><strong><span><font face="Times New Roman" color="#800080">http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/iceworm.htm</font></span></strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Verdana">Ha, it was true about this image above, it was sublimation&nbsp;-disappearing ice.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/12/68cb472d-d86a-476d-ac37-98bc02078943.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Verdana">What will be even spookier is if tomorrow they come out and show other things moving around like&nbsp;ice-worms??? In the worm-like animation it grows shrinks and grows again like it is surveying the area above from the comfort of its hole. In the animated image linked below is some movement of small items, not sure if it is reaction to the sublimation of the ice or other more compelling&nbsp;movement as stated above?</span></span></span> </p><p><font color="#ff6600"><span style="color:#ff6600;font-family:Verdana">These images were acquired by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo Imager on the 21st and 25th days of the mission, or Sols 20 and 24 (June 15 and 18, 2008). <br /><br />These images show sublimation of ice in the trench informally called "Dodo-Goldilocks" over the course of four days. <br /><br />In the lower left corner, lumps disappear, similar to the process of evaporation</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#000000">.</font></span></font></p><p><font color="#ff6600"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/press/14060.html</font></span></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Here is&nbsp;another set of raw images I processed.</span></span></span>&nbsp;</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">This is interesting from </span><span style="font-family:Verdana">Opportunity</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"> notice the different colors of blue-berries, green and grey,&nbsp;and the mud like&nbsp;t<span style="font-family:Verdana">rench</span>. The grey blueberries are in the trench where the mud-like soil is,&nbsp;the green ones are in a different area, remember grey means hematite - which means drenched in water at a time in its life ... </span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">For Larger Image See:</span></span></span> </p><p>http://members.cox.net/theinnovator/1P266586530EL5M1.jpg</p><p><img style="width:258px;height:317px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/15/55e9ea20-da36-4b47-9f23-259115644365.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="192" height="253" /><br />http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><font color="#993300"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Liquid water on Mars may have once drizzled from the sky or collected as dew on the ground.</span></font></p><p><font color="#993300"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">The falling water left signs in the Martian soil measured by NASA's Viking, Pathfinder, and rover missions, a new study suggests.</span></font></p><p><font color="#993300"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">"By analyzing the chemistry of the planet's soil, we can derive important information about Mars' climate history," said Ronald Amundson, UC Berkeley ecologist and the study's lead author.</span></font><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">Sulfates appear to have accumulated on the surface with layers of chloride salt beneath &mdash; a pattern suggesting water fell onto the soil from the Martian atmosphere. Because sulfates are less soluble in water than chloride, they tend to separate out from water first. That means water moving downward would carry chlorides further beyond the sulfates.</font></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">&nbsp;</font></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">"It seems very logical that a dry, arid planet like Mars with the same bedrock geology as many places on Earth would have some of the same hydrological and geological processes operating that occur in our deserts here on Earth," Amundson said.</font></span></p><p><font face="Times New Roman" color="#800080">http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080625-mars-rainfall.html</font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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ckalil

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3488

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">Here are some new images of an area I described in a post a few years back. Can someone give me a super good reason for the dark area in the first image. I have plenty of reasons beyond this image to believe that something flows in this channel for a brief time every polar</font> &nbsp;spring.<font color="#000080">http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/browse/V20359001?band=3&stretch=S2http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/browse/V13283008?band=3&stretch=S2</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000"> Posted by ckalil</font></DIV></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Welcome to SDC, ckalil,</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Great stuff, you have posted here, very well done indeed.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>I like those images very much. Yes thet are indeed late spring images, IIRC in the Chasma Boreale, almost up at the North Pole itself, about 80 - 85 North.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>The second image is clearly Barchan Dunes, with the CO2 ice subliming. A N E wind is exposing the dunes, which are almost certainly made from basaltic sand (their dark colour is a dead giveaway & the ESA Mars Express has imaged small volcanoes in this general area). These dunes are are protecting the lee ward side as well as the ground on the lee ward side from that North eastrly, hence the streaked appearance. The fisrt image appears similar but maybe boulders & / or small dunes, but exactly the same thing is happening.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>When or if Mars exploration is properly funded, though I am absolutely delighted with the successes thus far, it would be great to send a nuclear / RTG powered lander into the Chasma Boreale (there is a whole load of other landing sites I would put landers & rovers, this is one of them).&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.&nbsp;</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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ckalil

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<p>Andrew,</p><p>Both images are of the same channel. The second image is just slightly offset.&nbsp;The slope of the surface is from the bottom left downwards towards the top right of the image.</p><p>There are other images of steam rising up from this channel:</p><p>http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m19_m23/full_gif_map/M21/M2101415.gif http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m19_m23/full_gif_map/M21/M2101920.gif</p><p>You may have to brighten the image but it is very clear. It&nbsp;is also curious that&nbsp;in the second image (m2101920) &nbsp;that the ice has sublimed on the dunes that are closer to the channel.&nbsp;Hmmmm...</p><p>Here are both images together:&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.cck-music.com/bothimages.png</p><p>At the point where there is a high number of dunes in the channel those dunes look "flattened" as though liquid has flowed over them. The curves and shapes of those dunes also look as though liquid has shaped&nbsp;their&nbsp;bases (visible&nbsp;in&nbsp;V13283008).&nbsp;</p><p>Also here: http://www.cck-music.com/dunes.png</p><p>Just interesting stuff that I have not seen repeated anywhere else on Mars.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
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rlb2

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here are some new images of an area I described in a post a few years back. Can someone give me a super good reason for the dark area in the first image. I have plenty of reasons beyond this image to believe that something flows in this channel for a brief time every polar &nbsp;spring.http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/browse/V20359001?band=3&stretch=S2&nbsp;http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/browse/V13283008?band=3&stretch=S2 <br />Posted by ckalil</DIV></p><p>Thanks for that the input I&nbsp; have some old places you may look for some of those thoughts you expressed in the past please feel free to express your opion here, this is an open discussion of Mars. </p><p><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:Verdana">I started the first actual Mars images on sol 1 of Spirits Landing; all the images were lost in a big crash. Swampcat contributed with a lot of good images from the start, it took me a while to catch up to his quality. I miss his input. I have redone some of my old color images of which I have over 3,000 which I will post 1/2 of them&nbsp;on my website. Shineinnovations.com a</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:Verdana">s soon I get it up and running.&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span></font></p><p><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Mars Image 1 - actually Mars II, the first images were lost in the Space.com big crash before the summer of 2004.&nbsp;</span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=sciastro&Number=1358&page=18&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1</font></span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span> </font><font face="Times New Roman"><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Mars Image 2 </span></p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=sciastro&Number=137121&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1</font></span><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Mars Images 3</span></p>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=sciastro&Number=347015&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=28&vc=1</font></span></font> <p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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rlb2

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<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Thanks Andrew any of your updates are always welcomed here. I am going to expand on this theme to include the Phoenix Lander since this discussion goes back too 2004.</span></span></span> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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kg

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Have there been more pictures taken underneath the lander to see if what they first suspected was ice has now sublimated?&nbsp; Is there any danger of a "sink hole" forming under the lander if it has?<br />
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Have there been more pictures taken underneath the lander to see if what they first suspected was ice has now sublimated?&nbsp; Is there any danger of a "sink hole" forming under the lander if it has? <br />Posted by kg</DIV><br /><br />Yes, see the Phoenix Surface MIssion thread, or look here at Emily Lakdawalla's superb Planetary Society Blog.</p><p>http://www.planetary.org/blog/</p><p>Images were taken on SOl 8 and 31 of underneath. If there's any change in the "ice" under there it's very subtle. It looks a bit different, but since the lighting is different, it's hard to say if there have been any physical changes.</p><p>In any case, it's clear that there's no chance of a sinkhole forming during the mission lifetime, even the extended mission. And by then the lander will begin to be buried in CO2 ice anyway.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><span style="font-family:Verdana">Here is something new that supports the Panspermia peoples view.</span></p><p><br /><font color="#ff6600">Scientists have confirmed for the first time that an important component of early genetic material which has been found in meteorite fragments is extraterrestrial in origin, in a paper published on 15 June 2008. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#ff6600">The finding suggests that parts of the raw materials to make the first molecules of </font><font style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" color="#ff6600"><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" class="kLink">DNA</span></font><font color="#ff6600"> and RNA may have come from the stars. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#ff6600">The scientists, from Europe and the USA, say that their research, published in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters, provides evidence that life's raw materials came from sources beyond the Earth. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#ff6600">The materials they have found include the molecules uracil and xanthine, which are precursors to the molecules that make up DNA and RNA, and are known as nucleobases. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#ff6600">The team discovered the molecules in rock fragments of the Murchison meteorite, which crashed in Australia in 1969. </font></p><p align="left">http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=25815</p><p align="left">&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><font color="#993300">The scientists saw the scrapings in Surface Stereo Imager images on Sunday, June 29, agreed they had "almost perfect samples of the interface of ice and soil," and commanded the robotic arm to pick up some scrapings for instrument analysis. </font></p><p><font color="#993300">The scoop will sprinkle the fairly fine-grained material first onto the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. The instrument has tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil to assess its volatile ingredients, such as water. It can determine the melting point of ice. </font></p><p><font color="#993300">Phoenix's overall goals are to: dig to water frozen under subsurface soil, touch, examine, vaporize and sniff the soil and ice to discover the history of water on Mars, determine if the Martian arctic soil could support life and study Martian weather from a polar perspective.</font> </p><p>http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=28489</p><p>Here is a color image I processed from raw RGB images. &nbsp;</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/9/5e00681a-d82b-4d5a-8964-01064dd86742.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="275" height="187" /></p><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Here is&nbsp;the blistering paint - my thoughts, or ice that people have been talking about? Most likely it is ice buildup. </span></p><span style="font-family:Verdana"><br /><img style="width:220px;height:192px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/13/1a943006-015d-4b12-bd6e-9341f7d3d17f.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="259" height="237" /><br /></span><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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voyagerwsh

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<p>RLB2,</p><p>This is&nbsp;not happening now, and it has no relation&nbsp;to contemporary liquid&nbsp;water&nbsp;on Mars at present day but Mars once rained at the Hesperian-Amzonia era (3 billion years ago), according to&nbsp;geologist Ronald Amundson of the UC, Berkeley.</p><p>Story at:</p><p>http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/702/1</p>
 
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rlb2

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>RLB2,This is&nbsp;not happening now, and it has no relation&nbsp;to contemporary liquid&nbsp;water&nbsp;on Mars at present day but Mars once rained at the Hesperian-Amzonia era (3 billion years ago), according to&nbsp;geologist Ronald Amundson of the UC, Berkeley.Story at:http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/702/1 <br />Posted by voyagerwsh</DIV></p><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Hi voyagerwsh its good to hear from you again, thanks for that update. Some estimates are even claiming it might have rained as little as 1.8 billion years ago.&nbsp;A lot of views have changed&nbsp;after the twins set wheels down on Mars since we started talking about this year&rsquo;s ago, but mine and if I remember right yours, have&nbsp;always favored a blue wet&nbsp;fluid&nbsp;past.&nbsp;Now that </span><span style="font-family:Verdana">Phoenix</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"> is there new barriers are still being broken.</span></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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3488

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">Hi voyagerwsh its good to hear from you again, thanks for that update. Some estimates are even claiming it might have rained as little as 1.8 billion years ago.&nbsp;A lot of views have changed&nbsp;after the twins set wheels down on Mars since we started talking about this year&rsquo;s ago, but mine and if I remember right yours, have&nbsp;always favored a blue wet&nbsp;fluid&nbsp;past.&nbsp;Now that Phoenix is there new barriers are still being broken. <br />Posted by rlb2</font></DIV></p><p><strong><font size="2">Yes that 1.8 GYA is certainly a lot more recent than anything mentioned prior to that, but is still a loooooong time ago, our solar system has orbited the Milky Way's centre about seven times since then & that life on Earth IIRC had not progressed much beyond Stromatolites, but is still considerably more recent than the 3.8 GYA previously quoted.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">I wonder if that 1.8 GYA represents the time, that mass volcanism on Mars ceased (reducing to only episodic eruptions after), thus the replinishment of the atmosphere shut down (bearing in mind the global magnetosphere appears to have shut down well, before then, so volcanoes were the only lifeline).</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">I still reckon Mars will eventually lose its atmosphere totally, becoming more like Mercury or the Moon in the distant future, as the Sun becomes more powerful, volatiles whilst being driven away may thicken up the atmosphere temporarily, before being completely lost.</font></strong></p><p><br /><strong><font size="2">Can I ask, do you have a website for your full resolution images, like Anthmartian does&nbsp; with This Island Earth?</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2"><br />Andrew Brown.</font></strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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rlb2

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Can I ask, do you have a website for your full resolution images, like Anthmartian does&nbsp; with This Island Earth?Andrew Brown. <br />Posted by 3488</DIV></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana">Hi Andrew, yes my new site should be up and running soon. I will post all my old color images&nbsp;and new ones there,&nbsp;which is more than 1,500. It has a lot more bandwidth than my old one. My new site will be&nbsp;a business site but there will be a place you can go to view the full color images. Right now it is under construction. The name of the site is -&nbsp;Shine Innovations:</span></p><p><span style="font-family:Verdana">http://shineinnovations.com/index.html</span></p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">&nbsp;<strong><font face="Verdana">Early Mars Was All Wet By Andrea Thompson</font></strong></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font size="1" color="#993300"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">This layering gives scientists a dividing line of about 3.7 to 3.5 billion years ago for a transition in Martian geology: "Before that the rocks were altered into clays, since then they're not," Murchie said.</span></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">"There's a variety of environments that are formed where the rock was lightly altered where you see things like chlorite, to where it was altered with water at really high temperature, where you see mica, to where a lot of water must have flowed through the rock in order to dissolve out the iron and magnesium and you're left with kaolinite," Murchie said.</font></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">The alteration of later rocks, such as the sulfates found by the </font><font color="#993300">Mars Exploration Rovers</font><font color="#993300"> (MER), Spirit and Opportunity in the northern hemisphere, on the other hand, formed under much more restricted conditions.</font></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">One implication of these findings is that some of the environments that formed the phyllosilicates would not have been antagonistic to any potential life, unlike the conditions that formed the sulfates, which formed in a highly acidic environment similar to battery acid, as Murchie put it.</font></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">Whether the MER rovers can get a close-up peek at these phyllosilicates while the robots still roam the Martian surface is uncertain, Murchie said, because so far the rocks haven't been detected near the crafts. But they could be there and simply be obscured in the north from the MRO instruments by dust.</font></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#0000ff">"It doesn't take much to hide something from our optical instrument in orbit," he said, just a few micrometers of dust. "So just brushing away the rock surface could be enough," he added.</font></span></p><p><font face="Arial">http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080716-mars-water.html</font></p><p><font face="Arial">Here is the latest from phoenix - SS051EFF900747526_15C30RBM</font></p><p><br />http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/6/5b82c8b8-11aa-4f4b-b61f-5adfe7e87570.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="304" height="300" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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<span style="font-family:Verdana">Here is a reference to the Martian ice worm/nematode movie I made from the phoenix optical imager posted back on </span><span style="font-family:Verdana">06-16-08</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"> in this thread. Note there could be something else in that movie that makes it look like a worm.&nbsp;Never-the-less the possibility of finding life on Mars is accelerating every day because of research here on earth that shows the extreme environments that they can thrive in&nbsp;- you just have to know where to look.&nbsp;I have been preaching the gospel of the possibility of finding subterranean life-forms there and how water can be present just under the surface for over 12 years.....Note the title here for this thread is &ldquo;Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars&rdquo; researchers have said can exist on the surface under the right conditions. It is mostly&nbsp;due to briny water.....</span> <p align="left"><font color="#993300">Tiny microbes beneath the sea floor, distinct from life on the Earth's surface, may account for one-tenth of the Earth's living biomass, according to an interdisciplinary team of researchers, but many of these minute creatures are living on a geologic timescale. "Our first study, back in 2006, made some estimates that the cells could double every 100 to 2,000 years," says Jennifer F. Biddle, PhD. recipient in </font><font style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" color="#993300"><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana;background-color:transparent" class="kLink">biochemistry</span></font><font color="#993300"> and former postdoctoral fellow in geosciences, Penn State. Biddle is now a postdoctoral associate at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">The researchers, who included Biddle; House; Stephan C. Schuster, associate professor; and Jean E. Brenchley, professor, biochemistry and </font><font style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana"><font color="#993300"><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana;background-color:transparent" class="kLink">molecular </span><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana;background-color:transparent" class="kLink">biology</span></font></font><font color="#993300">, Penn State; and Sorel Fitz-Gibbon, assistant research molecular biologist at the Center for Astrobiology, UCLA, found that a large percentage of the microbes were Archaea, single-celled organisms that look like Bacteria but are different on the metabolic and genetic levels. The percentage of Archaea increases with depth so that at 164 feet below the sea floor, perhaps 90 percent of the microbes are Archaea. The total number of organisms decreases with depth, but there are lots of cells, perhaps as many as 1,600 million cells in each cubic inch. </font></p><p><font color="#993300"><font color="#993300">If the rest of the world is like the Peruvian Margin, then at least one tenth and as much as a third of the Earth's biomass could be these tiny microbes living in the mud. However, this population lives at an unusual rate. Single-celled organisms usually consume food for energy and then rather than grow larger, simply divide and reproduce themselves. While the Bacteria Escherichia Coli, as an example, doubles its numbers every 20 minutes, these Archaea double on the order of hundreds or thousands of years and consume very little energy.</font> </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#000080">"In essence, these microbes are almost, practically dead by our normal standards," says House. "They metabolize a little, but not much." </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">According to House, organisms metabolizing at such slow rates is what we could expect to find in other areas of our solar system because such environments have much less energy available than on Earth. </font><font color="#000080">Perhaps, similar organisms may be in hydrothermal vents beneath the ice of Europa -- the second moon of Jupiter -- or in subsurface aquifers of Mars. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">"We do not expect the microbes in other places to be these microbes exactly," says House. "But, they could be living at a similar slow rate." </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">Biddle notes that these microbes could survive major Earth impacts by asteroids, so the subsea floor could be a refuge for life during extinction events. Now this study shows they may be a reservoir of novel genetic material as well. Her future research will focus on understanding the lifestyle of the microbes. </font></p><p>http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26031</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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<p><span style="font-family:Verdana">Finally more confirmation on one of the characteristics of this tread which was started back in 2005&hellip;.<strong>Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars,&hellip;..</strong></span><strong><span style="font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><font color="#993300"><span style="font-family:Arial">NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has confirmed the existence of water ice on Mars.</span></font> </p><p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font color="#993300"><span style="font-family:Arial">Mission</span><span style="font-family:Arial"> scientists celebrated the news after a sample of the ice was finally delivered to one of the <span class="spelle">lander's</span> instruments. <span style="font-family:Arial">Phoenix</span></span></font><span style="font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">'s mission has also officially been extended for one month beyond its original mission, NASA announced today at a briefing at the <span style="font-family:Arial">University</span><span style="font-family:Arial"> of <span style="font-family:Arial">Arizona</span></span></font></span><font color="#993300"><span style="font-family:Arial"> at <span style="font-family:Arial">Tucson</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial">, where mission control is currently based.</span></font></p>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">"I'm very happy to announce that we've gotten an ice sample," said the <span style="font-family:Arial">University</span><span style="font-family:Arial"> of <span style="font-family:Arial">Arizona</span></span></font></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">'s William Boynton, co-investigator for <span style="font-family:Arial">Phoenix</span><span style="font-family:Arial">'s Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), which heats up samples and analyzes the vapors they give off to determine their composition.</span></font></span> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"><font color="#993300">"We have water," Boynton added. "We've seen evidence for this water ice before in observations by the Mars Odyssey orbiter and in disappearing chunks observed by <span style="font-family:Arial">Phoenix</span><span style="font-family:Arial"> last month, but this is the first time Martian water has been touched and tasted."</span></font></span></p><span style="font-family:Arial"></span>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Verdana"><font color="#800080">http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/080731-phoenix-update.html</font></span> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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<p align="left"><font color="#993300">The White House has been alerted by NASA about plans to make an announcement soon on major new Phoenix lander discoveries concerning the "potential for life" on Mars, scientists tell Aviation Week & Space </font><font style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" color="#993300"><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" class="kLink">Technology</span></font><font color="#993300">. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">In fact, the </font><font style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana"><font color="#993300"><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;border-bottom:blue1pxsolid;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana;background-color:transparent" class="kLink">Jet </span><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;border-bottom:blue1pxsolid;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana;background-color:transparent" class="kLink">Propulsion </span><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;border-bottom:blue1pxsolid;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana;background-color:transparent" class="kLink">Laboratory</span></font></font><font color="#993300"> science team for the MECA wet-chemistry instrument that made the findings was kept out of a July 31 news conference at the University of Arizona Phoenix control center. The goal was to prevent them from being asked any questions that could reveal information before NASA is ready to make an announcement, sources say. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">The Bush Administration's Presidential Science Advisor's office, however, has been briefed on the new information that NASA hopes to release as early as mid August. It is possible an announcement would not come until September, to allow for additional analysis. That will depend upon the latest results still being analyzed from the spacecraft's organic oven and soil chemistry laboratories. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">Phoenix scientists have said from the start that neither the TEGA </font><font style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana"><font color="#993300"><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" class="kLink">organic </span><span style="font-weight:400;color:blue!important;font-family:geneva,arial,verdana" class="kLink">chemistry</span></font></font><font color="#993300"> lab nor the MECA wet chemistry system could detect current or past life. </font></p><p align="left"><font color="#993300">MECA's two microscopes do, however, have the resolution to detect bacteria--which would be life. Sources, however, say the microscopes have not detected bacteria.</font> </p>http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1297<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>
 
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