STS-125 Hubble Repair Mission (Atlantis) [May 2009?]

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Cheers Wayne,Atlantis will be fine, I'm not worried & further more that risk od MMOD is being taken very seriously no matter how small, so that has been accounted for in the Mission Plan. We also know the Hubble has not had any serious hits, since Hubble is still operational, Atlantis & her STS 125 crew will be fine.&nbsp;I am sure this mission will be an enormous success & Atlantis will land safely. It is the sort of thing NASA does very well.Andrew Brown.&nbsp; <br />Posted by 3488</DIV></p><p>The risk is not small. The loss of vehicle and crew due to a MMOD during STS-125 is estimated to be&nbsp;1 out of 185 per Mr Shannon's news conference yesterday. For a ISS mission is reduces to 1 out of 300.</p><p>Would you get on a airliner if the probability of a crash was 1 out of 185?</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So I was wondering, if Johnson has to shut down for a few days, does that effect the processing flow to the launch?I was also wondering how many contingency days are in the STS-126 flow, mainly as it relates to being in a state to allow the launch of STS-125? <br />Posted by emerrill</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If JSC shuts done there is a most likly a&nbsp;impact to the launch due to the loss of&nbsp;crew training time and flight crew equipment preps.</p><p>There are ZERO contingency days between STS-125 and the STS-126 launch.&nbsp;See my reply to this question in the STS-126 thread.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;If JSC shuts done there is a most likly a&nbsp;impact to the launch due to the loss of&nbsp;crew training time and flight crew equipment preps.There are ZERO contingency days between STS-125 and the STS-126 launch.&nbsp;See my reply to this question in the STS-126 thread. <br />Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV></p><p>By the way the ascent is the most dangerious part of the mission. This drives the over all chance of loss of vehicle and crew at 1 out of 80. (The demonstarted reliability is about 1 out of 60)<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There are ZERO contingency days between STS-125 and the STS-126 launch.&nbsp;See my reply to this question in the STS-126 thread. <br /> Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah, I figured there were none between launches (since these is a 1-to-1 slip for days), but I was wondering how many days are in the flow for getting into the STS-400 state to support a Oct 10th STS-125 launch?</p><p>Also, really just a random thought, is the current processing of OV-105 and the ET-129 officially in the STS-126 flow or STS-400? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks SG </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p>Another question that doesn't really have bearing on anything, but Im just curious if STS-125 (or STS-400) will carry a RCO IFM cable? My understanding was that it was stowed on station. Did it come back, or is there another one? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Yeah, I figured there were none between launches (since these is a 1-to-1 slip for days), but I was wondering how many days are in the flow for getting into the STS-400 state to support a Oct 10th STS-125 launch?Also, really just a random thought, is the current processing of OV-105 and the ET-129 officially in the STS-126 flow or STS-400? &nbsp;Thanks SG <br />Posted by emerrill</DIV></p><p>There&nbsp; are 7 contingency days in the STS-126/400 flow to support the STS-125 launch.</p><p>The flow is considered the STS-126/400 flow at this time.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Another question that doesn't really have bearing on anything, but Im just curious if STS-125 (or STS-400) will carry a RCO IFM cable? My understanding was that it was stowed on station. Did it come back, or is there another one? <br />Posted by emerrill</DIV></p><p>The cable is available on every flight (However there is no reason for it to be on STS-125 so It probably is not to be stowed for that flight). I have not heard anything about it being stowed on the ISS. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The cable is available on every flight (However there is no reason for it to be on STS-125 so It probably is not to be stowed for that flight). I have not heard anything about it being stowed on the ISS. <br /> Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV></p><p>Ah, I was basing the assumption that it was stored on ISS (which would make sense anyways, except for STS-125) on a wikipedia entry (i know, reliable...) and a powerpoint from Oribter Project Office that included a bit: 'The cable is 28 feet long, weighs 5.4 lbs, and is stowed on the ISS for emergency use'. But anyways, thanks for the info </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Ah, I was basing the assumption that it was stored on ISS (which would make sense anyways, except for STS-125) on a wikipedia entry (i know, reliable...) and a powerpoint from Oribter Project Office that included a bit: 'The cable is 28 feet long, weighs 5.4 lbs, and is stowed on the ISS for emergency use'. But anyways, thanks for the info <br />Posted by emerrill</DIV></p><p>Thanks for the info. I now know the cable is on the ISS. I just hope they know where it is stowed !!<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks for the info. I now know the cable is on the ISS. I just hope they know where it is stowed !! <br /> Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV></p><p>Hehe. Though that's the part that makes me wonder about STS-125/400, and if they brought it back on STS-124, or if they would send up the other cable they built for SAIL testing (?) if need be with STS-400. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bobble_bob]

<p>Assuming Endeavour isnt needed for a rescue mission, will it stay at the pad until its mission in November, or will it get rolled back to the VAB then rolled out again closer to its mission date?</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bpcooper]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Assuming Endeavour isnt needed for a rescue mission, will it stay at the pad until its mission in November, or will it get rolled back to the VAB then rolled out again closer to its mission date? <br /> Posted by bobble_bob</DIV></p><p>Endeavour will be rolled directly from B to A, a few days after 125 launches. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Endeavour will be rolled directly from B to A, a few days after 125 launches. <br /> Posted by bpcooper</DIV></p><p>Won't it be a few days before STS-125 lands? Don't the need to maintain STS-400 through final inspection (Looks like that is on FD9)? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bpcooper]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Won't it be a few days before STS-125 lands? Don't the need to maintain STS-400 through final inspection (Looks like that is on FD9)? <br /> Posted by emerrill</DIV></p><p>You're right, a few days after landing. Currently landing 20th and apparently rollaround planned for 23rd. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p>Well, looks like JSC isw being shutdown, and ISS operations have been moved to the backup control site (they are working on delaying docking of Progress til they get back to the main site after the storm).</p><p>I'll be curious to see what effect this has on the STS-125 timeline. My wife and I are planning on driving down to see the launch (from Michigan). </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well, looks like JSC isw being shutdown, and ISS operations have been moved to the backup control site (they are working on delaying docking of Progress til they get back to the main site after the storm).I'll be curious to see what effect this has on the STS-125 timeline. My wife and I are planning on driving down to see the launch (from Michigan). <br />Posted by emerrill</DIV></p><p>I hope the schedule holds....but I do not know if there will be a impact.</p><p>Drop us a line if you do come down. Perhaps we could get together.&nbsp; (My significant other is from Michigan)</p><p>dave996@yahoo.com</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[job1207]

Instead of Miami, Ike hit Cuba and Houston. ( or pretty close to Houston in the next day or so ) The point being, the Weather service does it's best to figure these things out. If I was President, I would increase the number of sensors by a factor of 100 ( or whatever the experts want ) and then I would bet that the supercomputers could figure out pretty much with great accuracy where these things are going and how strong they will be.

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Instead of Miami, Ike hit Cuba and Houston. ( or pretty close to Houston in the next day or so ) The point being, the Weather service does it's best to figure these things out. If I was President, I would increase the number of sensors by a factor of 100 ( or whatever the experts want ) and then I would bet that the supercomputers could figure out pretty much with great accuracy where these things are going and how strong they will be. <br />Posted by job1207</DIV><br /><br />All well and good, but where does the money come for that? Pragmatically speaking, 100X sensors would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, and in reality would only make a modest increase in accuracy without another hundred billion for new supercomputers.</p><p>Weather is almost by definition a chaotic process beyond a few days. A 1 degree difference in a single sensor reading (and accuracy is +/- 2 degrees) could totally change the results of a model oitput.</p><p>Mother Nature works on her own scale and plan.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[job1207]

<p>I was thinking of sea based sensors, and permanent ballons. and land based sensors in a grid along the power lines, or something along those lines. Afterall the power lines go where the people and materials are. </p><p>Also the supercomputers will get ten, then 100 times, then 1000 times bigger in time, regardless.&nbsp;</p><p>Or someone will come up with a one space satellite that can sample an area the size of Texas in 1 mile intervals or something that obscene.&nbsp; </p><p>But at any rate, I am not running for President, and I am not an expert. It is just a good idea, about which, I am sure someone has something good to say. But not in missions and launches.&nbsp; </p><p>More data equals more accuracy. Chaos, which this clearly is, can be broken down into discreet data points, if there is enough data. </p><p>In this case, a billion tons of data is needed. So let's get it. Also, there are boundary areas that are more important. Those along the coasts and along the Bermuda High Pressure ridge areas that wind up steering the Hurricanes. so you could cut down on the expense. More data on land should be easier to get. </p><p>The only way to get better forcasts is to get more data, and bigger computers anyway.&nbsp; </p>

 

[emerrill]

Luckily it sounds like the first reports from the ride-out crew are that there was little damage and no flooding at JSC. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

According to SFN, JSC will stay closed for the week while crews restore services. They say it is 'likely' that this will cause delays to STS-125 and STS-126. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>According to SFN, JSC will stay closed for the week while crews restore services. They say it is 'likely' that this will cause delays to STS-125 and STS-126. <br />Posted by emerrill</DIV><br /><br />Today's story from the Houston Chronicle..</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Damage assessments from Hurricane Ike at NASA's Johnson Space Center continued on Sunday, and a space agency spokesman said it could be late this week or sometime next week before the facility is ready to reopen for normal operations.</p><p>Johnson, which employees 16,500, received roof damage to the Mission Control Center, the installation that watches over the international space station and its three-man American and Russian crew.</p><p>Teams of controllers near Austin established a temporary control center before Johnson was closed on Thursday. They are working with another team of controllers at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., to fill in until Mission Control can reopen.</p><p>Though Johnson, which lost electrical power in the storm, was preparing to take commercial electricity again on Sunday, officials were not ready to give approval until further safety assessments were finished, said NASA spokesman John Ira Petty.</p><p>Johnson was not affected by Ike's Galveston Bay surge, but high winds damaged the roof and downed trees. Repairs and cleanup were under way on Sunday.</p><p>The space agency has not assessed the impact of the storm on plans for missions set for October and November. In October, the shuttle Atlantis is scheduled to overhaul the Hubble Space Telescope. In November, the shuttle Endeavour is on a space station assembly mission, said David Waters, spokesman for United Space Alliance, NASA's shuttle prime contractor.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Zipi]

There have been some comments about delaying the next shuttle flight because of the interrupted crew training... I really wonder because they must have trained these things over and over again because this mission had already been delayed before hurricane season. So if the crew training is an issue to delay the flight, why it is? As far as I can imagine the crew is probably more than ready to jump into their van, drove up to their destination&nbsp;and fix the Hubble. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There have been some comments about delaying the next shuttle flight because of the interrupted crew training... I really wonder because they must have trained these things over and over again because this mission had already been delayed before hurricane season. So if the crew training is an issue to delay the flight, why it is? As far as I can imagine the crew is probably more than ready to jump into their van, drove up to their destination&nbsp;and fix the Hubble. <br /> Posted by Zipi</DIV></p><p>If i were to guess, I would think the crew, if asked, would say they are ready to go, but there are (I assume) requirements that they have a certain amount of refresher training withing some amount of time before the flight. They just want to make sure, especially with something as complicated as this, that the crew is 100% on all the proceedures. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[SM4_Engineer]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There have been some comments about delaying the next shuttle flight because of the interrupted crew training... I really wonder because they must have trained these things over and over again because this mission had already been delayed before hurricane season. So if the crew training is an issue to delay the flight, why it is? As far as I can imagine the crew is probably more than ready to jump into their van, drove up to their destination&nbsp;and fix the Hubble. <br /> Posted by Zipi</DIV></p><p>Training is more than just the crew. The final two combined training periods are scheduled for this week and include mission aspects that have not been adequately exercised. There are many hundreds of people involved in pulling off a mission that are counting on the training this week to finalize their system preparedness. Much of the training is perishable so having sessions close to launch is imparative.</p><p>Could the crew go today? Sure. But it is better to finish the training docket than to fly with areas of weakness. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>