<p>What then? Say we find a planet, and confirm that it is almost exactly like ours. What would the world's nations need to do? Is it even possible to go it alone, or only those with the will? What about all of our differences? Does this all need to come to fruition before we can even think about branching out?</p><p> </p><p>Keep in mind for discussion purposes that, it would be confirmed that we found another Earth like planet. The distance is imaterial at this point, but for the sake of argument, lets say it was within 100 light years..</p><p> </p><p>Discuss!</p><p> </p><p>Tim-</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Hicup mostly hang out at: http://www.thespaceport.us Come and check it out, if you dare!!! </div>
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<p>For one thing, Popular Science would shift the main focus of every issue from Green Technology (Which is has been on for the last year and 1/2) and start focusing on the technology involved in getting to this planet, which would in fact be a major improvement...</p><p>I think you are going to see a unified effort to get to this twin, and by unified, I mean, the Nato, Russia, Japan, and Maybe China....</p><p>Were it up to me, I'd say we abandon Earth, Establish it as a Biological Preserve and take up residence on this new planet, which would not be having the same climate concerns that current Earth is, and hopefully, we'd be smart enough to not recreate them there... </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="color:#993366">In the event of a full scale nuclear war or NEO impact event, there are two categories of underground shelters available to the public, distinguished by depth underground: bunkers and graves...</span> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>For one thing, Popular Science would shift the main focus of every issue from Green Technology (Which is has been on for the last year and 1/2) and start focusing on the technology involved in getting to this planet, which would in fact be a major improvement...I think you are going to see a unified effort to get to this twin, and by unified, I mean, the Nato, Russia, Japan, and Maybe China....Were it up to me, I'd say we abandon Earth, Establish it as a Biological Preserve and take up residence on this new planet, which would not be having the same climate concerns that current Earth is, and hopefully, we'd be smart enough to not recreate them there... <br />Posted by votefornimitz</DIV></p><p> </p><p>Hmm... I would hope that everyone would all just get along, but I'm not so sure it would go down that easily.</p><p> </p><p>Tim-<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Hicup mostly hang out at: http://www.thespaceport.us Come and check it out, if you dare!!! </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What then? Say we find a planet, and confirm that it is almost exactly like ours. What would the world's nations need to do? Is it even possible to go it alone, or only those with the will? What about all of our differences? Does this all need to come to fruition before we can even think about branching out? Keep in mind for discussion purposes that, it would be confirmed that we found another Earth like planet. The distance is imaterial at this point, but for the sake of argument, lets say it was within 100 light years.. Discuss! Tim- Posted by Hicup</DIV></p><p>There'd be a lot of arguing, a lot of posturing, a lot of bickering about who does what and who gets what credit. We'd finally get something workable going which would fail abysmally. Then, we'd yell and scream about who's fault it was, someone would get blamed, they'd blame the blamers and we'd argue for another 30 years. Then, someone would come along that had the drive and personality to organize another effort. Eventually, after a lot of blood, sweat and tears, we'd have a program in place to explore this planet in the name of Earth for all its peoples. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>
<p> </p><p><font size="4">What if it is already inhabited? Ever think about that?</font></p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>It does not require many words to speak the truth. Chief Joseph</p> </div>
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> What if it is already inhabited? Ever think about that? <br />Posted by cosmictraveler</DIV><br /><br />We can take care of that problem... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>We can take care of that problem... <br />Posted by brandbll</DIV></p><p><br />Our best large rockets have an Isp of about 440 sec. If you assume a very optimistic mass fraction of 90%, then we could send a payload to that "Earth twon' that is 100 light years away in 3,033,803 years, That is assuming that the warranty on the heater did not expire in the meantime. It gets pretty cold out there.</p><p>I sure we could get volunteers for the trip, but I would prefer to pick them myself. We could start with the 535 members of congress.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Our best large rockets have an Isp of about 440 sec. If you assume a very optimistic mass fraction of 90%, then we could send a payload to that "Earth twon' that is 100 light years away in 3,033,803 years, Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p><font size="2">But our best technology can blow the current crop of rockets away. </font></p><p><font size="2">Think Orion.</font></p><p><font size="2">We could send a generational ship that could make the trip in less than 1000 years. </font></p><p><font size="2"><br /><br /> </font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>We could send a generational ship that could make the trip in less than 1000 years. <br />Posted by boris1961</DIV><br /><br />Yeah, but before we do that we are going to have to build another space station in LEO and sit around in it for 1000 years before we're willing to actually try such a thing out....<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What then? Say we find a planet, and confirm that it is almost exactly like ours. What would the world's nations need to do? Is it even possible to go it alone, or only those with the will? What about all of our differences? Does this all need to come to fruition before we can even think about branching out? Keep in mind for discussion purposes that, it would be confirmed that we found another Earth like planet. The distance is imaterial at this point, but for the sake of argument, lets say it was within 100 light years.. Discuss! Tim- <br />Posted by <strong>Hicup</strong></DIV><br /></p><p>How far in the future is this scenario ? Is travelling to & fro like hopping on today's airliners or more like a boat trip circa 1470 ? In the latter situation I think you'd find relatively few volunteers to hop such a ride to a destination full of unknowns. I think few people today have the cajones that people back when did, our cages are too well guilded. However should there be a strong enough desire I suspect the private space industry would finally have a reason d'etre. The first few companies that get to Earth2 and start operating may well be beyond the reach of any present nation's laws and so whatever TPTB back here decide, by the time they get around to doing something about it, the privateers may be so enschonced that they could tell Earth1 to STFU. China might be the only space faring nation that controls it's own capability, so a semi-replay of the Opium Wars seems a possibility.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-----------------------------------------------------</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, <strong>STOP</strong> !</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>But our best technology can blow the current crop of rockets away. Think Orion.We could send a generational ship that could make the trip in less than 1000 years. <br />Posted by boris1961</DIV></p><p>Orion does not appear to have any better performance that what I assumed. It certainly does not blow away durrent propulsion technology. It could not come close the making that trip in less than 1000 years or even less than 1 miillion years.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>We can take care of that problem... <br />Posted by brandbll</DIV><br /><br /><font size="4">So your answer when finding anyone else out "there" is to destroy them so that we, the "advanced" people can just take over another world? I'd say that isn't a very smart way to be thinking because what if they are much farther advanced than we are and just send whatever it is we send to them back to us!! If their technology surpasses humans then that could be one thing that could happen along with a retaliation that could wipe the Earth off the universe if they were wanting to do so. </font></p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>It does not require many words to speak the truth. Chief Joseph</p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>How far in the future is this scenario ? Is travelling to & fro like hopping on today's airliners or more like a boat trip circa 1470 ? In the latter situation I think you'd find relatively few volunteers to hop such a ride to a destination full of unknowns. I think few people today have the cajones that people back when did, our cages are too well guilded. However should there be a strong enough desire I suspect the private space industry would finally have a reason d'etre. The first few companies that get to Earth2 and start operating may well be beyond the reach of any present nation's laws and so whatever TPTB back here decide, by the time they get around to doing something about it, the privateers may be so enschonced that they could tell Earth1 to STFU. China might be the only space faring nation that controls it's own capability, so a semi-replay of the Opium Wars seems a possibility. <br />Posted by mee_n_mac</DIV></p><p> </p><p>Tis true, a monumental undetaking to be sure, that's why I posed the question. So, how pathetic are we as a species? We could find something truly amazing and within reasonable reach and we "still" woulld screw it up.. 
</p><p> </p><p>Also, I am of the belief that we MUST attaint FTL speed if we ever hope to get off this rock..</p><p> </p><p>Tim-<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Hicup mostly hang out at: http://www.thespaceport.us Come and check it out, if you dare!!! </div>
</p><p> </p><p>Also, I am of the belief that we MUST attaint FTL speed if we ever hope to get off this rock..</p><p> </p><p>Tim-<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Hicup mostly hang out at: http://www.thespaceport.us Come and check it out, if you dare!!! </div><p>Forget the feasability of getting there, the logistics and everything. Hypothetically, if we confirm an Earth-like planet with oceans, continents, plate tectonics etc, and confirm that it has life- which, by the way, we will be able to do because of the spectral signature of free oxygen- we still have no right to interfere or colonize another living world whether it has sentient, intelligent life or not. </p><p>Most likely, if we could ever get there, we will be disspassionate observers of any living worlds and simply use them for scientific study. And I mean across the board scientific study. Even if it is a microbe and algaic world, we have no right to tamper with it.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>ZenGalacticore</p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Forget the feasability of getting there, the logistics and everything. Hypothetically, if we confirm an Earth-like planet with oceans, continents, plate tectonics etc, and confirm that it has life- which, by the way, we will be able to do because of the spectral signature of free oxygen- we still have no right to interfere or colonize another living world whether it has sentient, intelligent life or not. Most likely, if we could ever get there, we will be disspassionate observers of any living worlds and simply use them for scientific study. And I mean across the board scientific study. Even if it is a microbe and algaic world, we have no right to tamper with it. <br />Posted by ZenGalacticore</DIV></p><p> </p><p>Let me guess, you oppose drilling for oil too, right?</p><p> </p><p>Tim-<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Hicup mostly hang out at: http://www.thespaceport.us Come and check it out, if you dare!!! </div>
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Let me guess, you oppose drilling for oil too, right? Tim- <br />Posted by Hicup</DIV><br /><br />Would you suggest that we become the very thing that we, as a species entire, fear the most? An invading alien race? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4" color="#ff0000"><font size="2">Assumption is the mother of all stuff ups</font> </font></p><p><font size="4" color="#ff0000">Gimme some Schmack Schmack!</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Orion does not appear to have any better performance that what I assumed. It certainly does not blow away durrent propulsion technology. It could not come close the making that trip in less than 1000 years or even less than 1 miillion years. <br />Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p><font size="2">It would not be fair to hijack Tim's thread with an argument over the benefits of Orion. So I'll start a thread in M&L. <br /></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
<p> </p><p>It should be stantard procedure that any intelligent lifeforms we come in contact that do not have cross galaxy transportation should be purged. We need no competiton, we can barely co-operate with ourselves. Slavery and co-operation are out of the question. Given time they could learn our ways and rise against us.</p><p> Lightning strike during the confusion generated by first contact would ensure a swift victory. Use H-Bombs on the large populace centers and conventional weapons on the smaller ones, followed with landing craft. </p><p>If they poses FTL technology, we kiss ass and hope to lean it, and at the soonest possible point completly radiate their homeworld. FTL gives us the chance to just look for more anyways or the formation of drifting colonies.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">I don't think I'm alone when I say, "I hope more planets fall under the ruthless domination of Earth!"</font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff">SDC Boards: Power by PLuck - Ph**king Luck</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> It should be stantard procedure that any intelligent lifeforms we come in contact that do not have cross galaxy transportation should be purged. We need no competiton, we can barely co-operate with ourselves. Slavery and co-operation are out of the question. Given time they could learn our ways and rise against us. Lightning strike during the confusion generated by first contact would ensure a swift victory. Use H-Bombs on the large populace centers and conventional weapons on the smaller ones, followed with landing craft. If they poses FTL technology, we kiss ass and hope to lean it, and at the soonest possible point completly radiate their homeworld. FTL gives us the chance to just look for more anyways or the formation of drifting colonies. <br /> Posted by neuvik</DIV></p><p>Well. THAT really sucks. While I was posting a really long reply, the thread got moved and my work is lost. Oh well. Not gonna type it all again. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well. THAT really sucks. While I was posting a really long reply, the thread got moved and my work is lost. Oh well. Not gonna type it all again. <br />Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p><font size="2">I'd sure like to hear what you had to say. <br /><br /></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well. THAT really sucks. While I was posting a really long reply, the thread got moved and my work is lost. Oh well. Not gonna type it all again. <br /> Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p> </p><p>Go ahead and say it, now were curiouse....unless its about shooting down my theory haha </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">I don't think I'm alone when I say, "I hope more planets fall under the ruthless domination of Earth!"</font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff">SDC Boards: Power by PLuck - Ph**king Luck</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Would you suggest that we become the very thing that we, as a species entire, fear the most? An invading alien race? <br />Posted by schmack</DIV><br /><br />Well there's really only so many ways we can go here. Try to befriend these aliens, assuming they are intelligent enough to do so. We could just blast anyone that tries to step in our way. We could just sit outside their atmosphere and watch them, maybe send in a scout ship occasionally to kidnap some of the aliens to probe(which when you think about it, we already do it with animals all the time). Or we could just say screw all of it and just sit here on our planet and try to forget about 'em. </p><p>Hell, even if we do go their with good intentions most people here know that all it takes is one small virus and either it could wipe them out or it could wipe us out.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Let me guess, you oppose drilling for oil too, right? Tim- <br />Posted by Hicup</DIV><br /><br />What would you suggest we do with a newly discovered living world untouched by man? Rape it? Destroy its landscape and atmosphere with sub-divisions, shopping malls, factories spewing noxious gas, 12 lane freeways, light, noise, water, and air pollution? All because humanity needs another disposable world to waste?</p><p>It makes me hope that we never achieve relativistic speeds. We are still too greedy and self-centered, like a babe in arms. It's been said that we are in our technological adolescence. Technological and cultural infancy is more like it.</p><p>BTW, who's Tim?</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>ZenGalacticore</p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What would you suggest we do with a newly discovered living world untouched by man? Rape it? Destroy its landscape and atmosphere with sub-divisions, shopping malls, factories spewing noxious gas, 12 lane freeways, light, noise, water, and air pollution? All because humanity needs another disposable world to waste?It makes me hope that we never achieve relativistic speeds. We are still too greedy and self-centered, like a babe in arms. It's been said that we are in our technological adolescence.<br /> Posted by ZenGalacticore</DIV></p><p>Sounds good to me, unless you want the culling of our own species. If were able to reach those areas I'd assume we would be united by then, and overcome the majority of energy and pollution problems. If not, sure, its just another rock, well enact some plans too keep it going longer. </p><p>If were not going to exploit the planets why bother with exploration. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">I don't think I'm alone when I say, "I hope more planets fall under the ruthless domination of Earth!"</font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff">SDC Boards: Power by PLuck - Ph**king Luck</font></p> </div>
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What then? Say we find a planet, and confirm that it is almost exactly like ours. What would the world's nations need to do? Is it even possible to go it alone, or only those with the will? What about all of our differences? Does this all need to come to fruition before we can even think about branching out? Keep in mind for discussion purposes that, it would be confirmed that we found another Earth like planet. The distance is imaterial at this point, but for the sake of argument, lets say it was within 100 light years.. Discuss! Tim- <br /> Posted by Hicup</DIV></p><p>OKay... Here goes... First, I'll assume that you're talking about a planet that is roughly the same mass and gravity of Earth. I'll also assume that it's confirmed that humans could inhabit the planet.</p><p>I think the Space Dudes already take it for granted that there are plenty of Earth <em>v2.0</em>'sout there. Otherwise, they prolly wouldn't have gotten those Space Degrees.</p><p>The general public? Come on. Unfortunately, I think their biggest concern is that their six pack gets cold enough by the time the NASCAR race starts. </p><p>Maybe if the Mother Of All Impactors was zeroed in on Earth and the other Earth was within 10 or 20 LY, everyone would pool their resources together and blast a fleet of Orions towards Humanity's next potential home. Barring that, we can't even launch an Orion due to UN Treaty nor can we build it in NEO, fuel it and launch.</p><p>It would maybe be easy to follow SF and expect Conglomo to set up a mining colony. But what if we get there andit's a metal-poor planet? What if we don't get there, period? Even if Conglomo DID get there successfully and found a planet full of Platinum, how is a 100 year transit back to Earth going to satisfy investors?</p><p>For the sake of argument, let's say that the UN is so juiced about this new Earth that they suspend the reaty prohibiting nukes in space. ANyone have any estimates on what it would cost to build 2 or 3 ships in orbit that were hundreds of meters long and weighed hundreds of thousands of tons? Not to mention ferrying up thousands of nuclear bombs.</p><p>I think that the discovery of "New Earths" will be cool sweet and curious, and even that it will start happening within 10 or 20 years on a regular basis. Will we bust our butts (internationally or unilaterally) to get there? Not likely at our current state of technology without extinction being the alternative, I think. </p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>
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