STS-117 (13A) Mission- Part II

[3488]

This sounds pretty serious.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[emerrill]

Im still a little confused.<br /><br />erioladastra (who I have plenty of reason to believe) said that they cannot undock with the computers down (I assume you can actually do the undock, but they couldn't maintain orientation with what they have, and would have to depart on Soyuz pretty quickly) .<br /><br />At the 1430 press breifing yesterday, Bill Gerstenmeier said that they could undock, and while it would mostly saturate the CMGs, they think they can use the progress to desaturate them, and, at least implied, that they think they could stay in the current state for multiple weeks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I think was BG said was there is currently no way to do it, but with some concentrated effort and planning, being creative and resourceful, they may be able to figure out a way.<br /><br />He did say they would <i>like</i> to have the FGB computers up and running beofre they undocked.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[emerrill]

"How often can the Russians communicate with the ISS, and how much is this hindering the troubleshooting task?"<br /><br />Looking at the coverage map (Im sure someone else can give a better answer), it looks like that have 15-25 minutes max per orbit (~90min). They get that for a few orbits each day, before and after that they get some shorter passes (as the orbital plane moves away from asia/europe), and then finally they get nothing until they complete another 24 hr cycle.<br /><br />Maybe I have something completely messed up with that, but I think that is about it (trying to remember back to the orbital calcs we did in school while working on a satellite) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

"I think was BG said was there is currently no way to do it, but with some concentrated effort and planning, being creative and resourceful, they may be able to figure out a way. <br /><br />He did say they would like to have the FGB computers up and running beofre they undocked. "<br /><br />Yeah, I guess, maybe it's just that whole PR thing, BW didn't want to give quite as dire of a view of things <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bobblebob]

Seeing as they have had the computers up for abit, clearly power is going to them and its unlikely to be hardware due to them all failing.<br /><br />Seems to suggest there is a software issue where the computers are spotting some issues and shutting down?<br /><br />Im no expert tho <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[MeteorWayne]

Either that or the power still has something ugly about it that causes the brains or power supply within the computer to throw up. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

IIRC, these were made by a company in Germany for the Russians. Last time I looked, they had some boxes they said were the same comps in their part of the ISS. While I know they don't have the data et al the "live" computers do, isn't there a way to get them some replacements? Or, at least, troubleshoot those on the ground?<br /><br />Commenting on a systems failure in a computer environment I have no freaking clue about is risky at best. But, with a multiple failure like that across the board, my bet is that it doesn't have anything to do with the boxes themselves but a linked problem. Power would be the obvious issue but that doesn't seem to be the main focus. I'm aware these are connected to comps on the US module side of things. How are those faring? The links in-between? Controllers to/from etc? Rhetorical questions, I'm sure better minds than mine are all over this like engineers at a technology convention. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[emerrill]

Yeah, while I'm sure they have already looked at/ruled out this possibility, I've seen and heard of many times where you have redundant computers that all fail because of a bad sensor that sends bad/corrupt/out-of-range to all the computers.<br /><br />Another problems the crop up with redundant computers is lockstep sync loss. I seem to think I read that they have run into this problem with these computers, that they had to be rebooted periodically, because they would drift and loose sync. <br /><br />I seem to recall a problem that was discovered with the shuttle GPCs (General Purpose Computers) where the BFC (Backup Flight Computer) was out-of-sync with the GPCs. During final powerup, the BFC (which doesn't come on until shortly before launch) wouldn't boot and sync. It delayed the launch of STS-1 by a few days. <br /><br />Edit: Link to a short blurb on the shuttle computer problem, there are more detailed reports out there:<br />http://www.klabs.org/mapld06/abstracts/105_garman_a.html<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[thereiwas]

Yes, the only thing common to all three "lanes" and both computers is power and software. It is most likely one of those.<br /><br />The power could be clean *now* but something nasty in the past could have fried something. That would be very bad. Better hope it is software.

 

[bobblebob]

Do Nasa/russians know if the computers are crashing unexpectedly or are simply shutting down for an unknown reason yet? Both could point to different causes.<br /><br />Also, if its a software issue, is the software written to produce error reports (dump files etc)

 

[MeteorWayne]

THey are failing to reboot properly, and shutting down if they do some up for a while. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

From a news conference's scribblenotes from a few days ago:<br /><br />"Each consists of 3 computers running in parallel, called Lanes. <br />After a restart all 3 lanes are up and running and sync'd. Over a period of time the syncs drift, so one lane drops out, then eventually another, then finally the third. At that point the system "reboots" and comes back up with all 3 running. "<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Daimler-Benz <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[rybanis]

I wonder how the crew is feeling right now. Are they seriously stressed out at this point? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

They seem to be focusing on the task at hand, though I did hear a bit of crabbiness from someone yesterday..<br />The sleep interruptions may be part of that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">How risky is this? If they dont really understand what is causing this, and leaving less backup computers on the ISS, this could very well happen while Atlantis isnt there</font>/i><br /><br />If none of the computers are working, I don't think removing one of them is a risk at all.<br /><br />I am still curious how docking is going to happen when the spare parts are sent up on a Progress/Soyuz mission. Will humans try to manually control the atitude of ISS?</i>

 

[Testing]

It's the people on the ground lined up at the toilet I imagine <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

When in the TV biz lately, I used to have customers with a broken box that was critical.<br /><br />"Can you send it in?"<br />"Can I come and work on it?"<br /><br />"No it's too important, we can be without it"<br /><br />{Inside my mind: But it's not working, you idiot. You're already without it}<br /><br />Official words "OK we'll get the replcemenmt to you in a few days. Then you can send it in." <br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Testing]

If it is that important why didn't they have two? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rybanis]

MW: Ok, I was just thinking with this problem happening amidst the generally busy time that is a shuttle visit...I would be very crabby.<br /><br />Then again, I am not an astronaut <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Now there you go, making sense <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ckikilwai]

"{Inside my mind: But it's not working, you idiot. You're already without it} "<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[Testing]

Couple years ago the Big boss came to me and said, get what ever you need to insure nothing goes down for more than 24 hours.......... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[emerrill]

Briefing due any minute now. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>